Yes! get the government out of the way of private free enterprise! Start by cutting taxes! secondly, get rid of this narccisistic, egomanical, socialist and find a real leader!
"
"I have no idea what the solution could possibly be. Any ideas?"
Yeah! What fatboy said! The problem with Democrats (and if you honestly feel you have no ideas that would describe you) is that lowering taxes makes the rich folks happy. Democrats dream for a good economy with no happy rich people. (don't lie--just look into your heart--you KNOW you feel that way)
Aint gonna happen. No happy rich people-no good economy. That's how it is. Please get over it and let people keep more of the money they have earned. (even if it means they have more than you) We need some jobs--that means we're going to have to put up with more happy Rich people. Suck it up please--I know you can do it!!
Wow, is that really how it is? Because contrary to what you might believe, there are still a lot of happy rich people. But there are a lot more very qualified people who are stuggling because of the mess george dubya put us in. Is that your solution? Let the rich people be rich? As a person from a rich family that isn't struggling at all, I think that might not have as much effect as a republican might think it would.
Actually, rich people are generally happy, after all they're rich. As far as letting people keep more of their money, it works every time it's tried. President's Kennedy, Reagan and Bush have proved it. In fact, NOTHING ELSE WORKS, if you believe otherwise, you should be able to show me what and where.(I believe you've already admitted you can't) If people in government really think they know better how to spend the money of people who have earned it--then they need to resign their position in government--get a REAL job and show us how it's done. You'll notice that some of the more "knowledgeable" people in government, don't show any particular eagerness to do so
As far as Dubya "putting us into this mess", I'd like to suggest you put in a little more research. For example, if you don't happen to know about something called the "Community Re-investment Act" you need to do some research. Here is a great link for you to look at, http://directorblue.blogspot.com/2008/12/real-carter-clinton-legacy.html BTW, sorry about my previous tone. I must have been having a bad day or something. I'm usually more friendly. I respectfully suggest that blaming Bush for the current economy is an oversimplification.
Apology accepted, and you're right, it is an oversimplification. I personally just like to blame Bush because I think he's an idiot and I really dont like him. And while I do understand what youre saying, just because you think thats the one thing that worked in the past doesnt mean thats the only thing that works. We're about progress, remember? It's really time for all of us to step up and work out a solution that is good for everyone. I might not be able give you the right answer, but I sure as hell know that as a plan of action, keeping rich folks rich doesnt cut it. And thankfully, there are a lot of people smarter than me, including the President.
Hi nikkie!,"I personally just like to blame Bush because I think he's an idiot and I really dont like him."
Thank you for being honest. Just so you know, while Bush had a C average at Harvard, his grade point average was actually a little higher than John Kerry's gpa.
"keeping rich folks rich doesnt cut it".
Why not? You said yourself that it's worked in the past. Actually, the formula is to let EVERYONE keep as much of the money that they earn as possible (by lowering taxes and government spending) One of the results of doing that is having a strong economy. No one has a problem with that. The problem some of us have is that this also results in rich people getting richer.
Some people actually think preventing the second effect is more important than promoting the first one. All I'm saying is that the two are inseparable. I'm a Republican because I think that people should be allowed to keep as much of the money they earn as possible.
I'm a Republican because I think that people who elect to bring children into this world should be expected to feed, clothe, shelter, educate and raise them--not use other people's tax dollars to pay under-educated liberal arts majors to do it for them. I'm a Republican because I think that public assistance should be an absolute last resort and not a "life-style choice".
I'm mostly what you would call a "money" Republican. That means I would prefer to decide how the money I earn gets spent and I want that badly enough to allow other people to keep the money THEY earn, even if I don't happen to like them personally or doing so means that they will have more than me.
"It's really time for all of us to step up and work out a solution that is good for everyone."
Um, no. Not really. National defense and law enforcement notwithstanding, I reject the idea that it's proper to use the government to take from some to give to others.
Tell you what, if you want government paid health care for example, feel free to get together with all of the people who agree with you and pay for it yourselves. Leave the rest of us alone please.
Point taken. But while his grade point average may have been higher than kerry's, everything he says tends to border on ridiculous. I'm not saying it was because he's republican or anything, I just think he was a horrible president. And when I said it worked in the past, that was mostly just to be nice. Because if it really had worked so well, we wouldnt be where we are. The rich people are still pretty rich, remember? The solution that you keep saying is going to fix our problems is still happening, so how does it make it a solution? I really am asking, because I dont understand that reasoning. And regarding the extremely patronizing "Tell you what..." statement, I have a better idea. How about, everyone who agrees with our President votes one way, and everyone who agrees with you votes the other. How does that sound?
" How about, everyone who agrees with our President votes one way, and everyone who agrees with you votes the other. How does that sound?"
Terrible! Would you like to "take a vote" on what clothes you wear? How about what you eat? Whether or who you marry? Whether or how many kids you have? Whether or what kind of car you drive? What you do for a living?
I didn't think so. The point is that while voting is appropriate for some things, it is horribly IN-appropriate for the vast majority of decisions that we make every day. How I choose to spend my money is one of those things. If you want to be "generous and compassionate" the best way is to do that with YOUR OWN money. When you use OTHER PEOPLE'S money against their will, for purposes that they don't agree to, that is known as "stealing". Having the government do the stealing for you is not a "loophole" but self-delusion. When you confront that fact, it will be life changing for you (and perhaps more importantly your former victims in our political system)
Really? You're comparing taking a vote on what I wear to making sure that everyone who lives in america is healthy and safe? We are blessed to live in a place where we a free to make money, have our own opinion about anything and everything, and spend our money on whatever we want. Well, now its time to give back a little. As someone who pays my taxes happily and gives whenever I have the opportunity, it doesnt feel like too much to ask. And how is voting a terrible idea, isnt that how most really important decisions in america are made? And how every president we've ever had been elected?
"You're comparing taking a vote on what I wear to making sure that everyone who lives in america is healthy and safe?" Safe no, public safety is a legitimate government function. "Healthy", yes. It is not the government's job to feed clothe shelter and take care of adults. If it can do that, it's only a short jump to telling you what to wear or eat. No one owes me (or you) a living. "Well, now its time to give back a little" To you and others I don't even know? With all due respect--I don't think so."We are blessed to live in a place where we a free to make money, have our own opinion about anything and everything, and spend our money on whatever we want"--that is, unless you and a political majority decides they want something and uses government to take some of MY spending money away from ME to finance it for you "As someone who pays my taxes happily and gives whenever I have the opportunity, it doesn't feel like too much to ask". Of course it's not!--if it were ASKING! But "asking" isn't what we're talking about now is it? "how is voting a terrible idea?" It's not for a select few things like selecting our POLITICAL leaders who should be making far FEWER decisions about our personal lives than they are now. "isn't that how most really important decisions in america are made"? EMPHATICALLY NOT! Write down a list of one hundred of the most important decisions individuals make about their lives. (I've already listed several) I'd be very surprised if at least 90 out of the 100 weren't decisions most people would prefer to make on their own(or in consultation with close friends and family) Very few of the important decisions we make in life are voted on. Further, when government "provides" something like medical care, ultimately they do that by compulsion. By dictating to medical providers how and to whom they will provide services and whether or not they will even be able to charge for those services. Do you get that?? The government ultimately would have the power to require people to provide services to others under compulsion. This is otherwise known as SLAVERY and once again, having the government enslave others for your benefit is not an "ethical loophole", it is SLAVERY.
Ok, I really do understand what you're trying to say, but I wholehartedly disagree. For me it feels the same as telling the banks that they need to use that bailout money to help the people who bailed them out. Our (everyones, including yours and mine) salary is ultimatly decided and paid for by the people who are buying our product. If people are poor or are unhealthy, you're out of the job. But it's ok to ask for help right? Well, you've already said that you'd say no to doing whats right. You're unwilling to pay higher taxes because you'd rather buy crap that you dont really need than make sure the people around you are healthy and safe? And healthcare providers are more interested in making money than in doing their freaking job and providing medical care for people who need it? Obviously it's too much responsiblity for you both to handle. We'll vote, because this is a democracy. The people will decide how this country is run, and since this is a free country, you're welcome to leave if you disagree.
Nikkie says, "You're unwilling to pay higher taxes because you'd rather buy crap that you dont really need" According to who(whom)is what I want to spend my money on "crap" and why do you (they) get to decide what it is that I "don't need"?
"And healthcare providers are more interested in making money than in doing their freaking job and providing medical care for people who need it?" These "healthcare providers" are PEOPLE Nikkie who perhaps want to make money so that they can feed their families, or is that more "crap"?
"Obviously it's too much responsiblity for you both to handle". You are right, YOUR problems are too much responsibility for me to handle. I'll handle my own though and you should regard it as good news that I don't plan to steal from you and yours in order to do so.
"We'll vote,(steal) because this is a democracy. The people(parasites) will decide how this country is run, and since this is (was?) a free country, you're welcome to leave if you disagree".
If I were you, I'd start planning on that eventuality. I'm preparing a "fall-back" position as we speak and I imagine quite a few others are as well. What will you do when your future victims leave the country? Whom will you feed off of then? If I were you, I would be careful what I wished for...
And what happens when there isnt anyone to pay your bills? The money comes from somewhere, right? Or are you growing money on a tree in your backyard? Because I have a feeling that if everyone in this country stops buying whatever pays your bills, youre going to have a hard time being so pompous. And healthcare providers just wanting to feed their families? Are you kidding? Im sorry, I think you might be in denial. Im fairly sure that denying a woman healthcare because shes been raped, or denying a baby healthcare because hes too big (or too small) doesnt have anything to do with feeding their families. Sometimes, doing the right thing is actually the thing thats going to help you make a living. And trust me, I am counting on people like you leaving. Maybe then we'll actually get some freaking work done, instead of having so many people whining about what they arent getting. There are lots of people out there right now who cant work, and dont have a place to live. Im blessed to have a job and a safe home, so I'm more than willing to put in whatever I can to make sure everyone in this country has the same blessngs, no matter their situation. We've been doing things the greedy capatalist way for too long and it isnt working. Its time to try something new. And since you obviously dont have anything good to contribute, feel free to leave at any time.
"I have a feeling that if everyone in this country stops buying whatever pays your bills, youre going to have a hard time being so pompous". If accepting the fact that no one owes me a living is "pompous"--then, I'm all that.
"Its time to try something new". Socialism, is not new Nikkie. It's actually very old and fails each and every time it's tried." And trust me, I am counting on people like you leaving." If you're counting on that then why wouldn't you be satisfied with my original suggestion that you get together with those who agree with you and pay for whatever your group wants? That would be the same as others "leaving" wouldn't it? The slave masters need their slaves. We know this because you have been unable to answer my question. Who will you feed off of, when the producers have left the country? When only the parasites are left who will, "get some freaking work done"? I can tell by the tenor of your last couple of posts that this conversation is about done, so for you, I'm going to recap some of the questions I've asked you that you have been unable to answer. Perhaps then, or some day, you will understand what your anger towards me REALLY is--guilt.
1) Where has socialism worked? What socialist countries have more personal freedom and a higher standard of living than our own? Which of these countries have a larger number in immigrants than emigrants?
2) Did you ever research the Community Re-investment act or look at the link I provided to you about it?
3) Why should some decide for others how they spend their own money?
4) How much of my money do you have a right to take from me for others? Is there a dollar amount? If not, then is there a % of my income that you can take? What is the percentage and how do you come by that number?
5)Can the government force a Dr. to provide free services to others? Can it force a brick layer or a plumber to provide free services as well? If so why? If not why not?
6)We agree that using your own money to help others qualifies as an act of generosity. Do you think forcing other people to give up THEIR money also means that you are generous?
The following is a list of decisions that each of us make about our lives. Please explain which decisions you should be allowed to make on your own and which ones you think should be decided by a popular vote.
1) Where you live 2)What you wear 3) what you eat 4) whether or not you marry 5) who you marry 6) whether or how many children you have 7) where they go to school 8) what you do for a living 8) whether or not you own a car or what kind it is 9) who your doctor is 10)How much you work, or earn
I'm mildly curious how you answer those questions here but it's probably much more important how you answer them for yourself.
You're very right, this coversation should end. No matter what we say, I doubt that we'll ever agree. I dont think that people should be allowed to live in their own selfish, greedy little world. As a country we're willing to send people to other countries to die for us, but were not willing to pay a little more in taxes to make sure the people who live here are taken care of? And the "guilt" you think you're sensing? That's probably how much it sickens me how selfish we are. What on earth would I feel guilty about? That I'm willing to pay more taxes so that other people can have all the same things I have? Oh yeah, that's just awful. That I believe that other americans should be held to that same standard of love for the people we share this country with? I'm dispicable, really! All those questions you keep giving me to answer? While most of those are ridiculous questions that will never be decided on by a vote, one that I will answer is how much I earn. That's ALREADY decided by the people, as Ive mentioned before. As long as I have enough to live and take care of my family, why shouldnt I want to give more? The american people who can afford to give, should give. I can afford to give, so I do. I would say that you're the person who should feel guilty, but I'd really rather you just stopped. Im not angry at you for your opinion, youre welcome to have one. Dont get me wrong though, that doesnt mean Im going to let it stand in the way of doing what's right, and making sure my government knows how I feel about it.
Nikkie says," I dont think that people should be allowed to live in their own selfish, greedy little world".--Really!? Can I ask you a simple yet important question? Why?-- "The american people who can afford to give, should give."--you might find it a constructive use of your time to look up the word "give" in the dictionary. Either you need to change your views or find a more honest word to describe what you're advocating. Incidentally if you google the subject of comparing charitable donations by conservative Republicans vs those of liberal Democrats, you are going to discover a very unpleasant truth. What you'll find is not important to me since I don't judge people by how much of their money they donate to others but since YOU do--perhaps you should look it up.--"What on earth would I feel guilty about?"--how about being a thief and a slave-master for starters?(you would call it "taxation and administering a health care program")-- I'd really rather you just stopped." --Sounds like "guilt" to me.
Well, to me it sounds like you really only hear what you want to hear. I decided when I was about 11 years old that once the name calling starts, its time to end the conversation. You want argue like a child? Do it on your own.
